20 Replies Latest reply on May 18, 2018 10:08 AM by Paul Salvador

    How to model texture on football?

    Anthony Huczek

      Hello everyone,

       

      I'm having trouble with a model I'm working on. I've seen similar questions online so I think I know what I'm getting into but I figured I'd ask the pros here  before continuing. My client wants me to model the bumps or texture that are on a toy football like what you'd see on a nerf ball or squish toy. I've tried a few ways but my machine just can't handle due to the number of parts/operations involved. I let him know that typically isn't 3d modeled for this reason but we're still trying to see if this is possible for say plastic injection.

       

      So far the best luck I've had is splitting the part into 4 sections so that it's less to work on and using the fill pattern tool. I then extruded my pattern and used surface cuts and fillets to get close to what I want. The pattern isn't good though, distorts towards the edges, and it's simply taking forever. Any ideas or suggestions on how best to accomplish this? I've attached a couple of ref pics to show what I'm after.

       

      The people at these toy companies must have monster PCs is all I can assume. My mid range workstation just can't handle it...

       

      Thanks

      Anthony

        • Re: How to model texture on football?
          Dennis Dohogne

          Anthony,

          I don't have an immediate solution for you, but perhaps if you sign up for the Beta program you can solve this problem easily with a new feature in SWX2019.  It was a huge hit at SWWorld 2018 this year when they showed the new features coming out in SWX2019.

          • Re: How to model texture on football?
            Dan Pihlaja

            Do you actually need to MODEL the texture?  Or can you just SHOW the texture?

             

            There might be some ideas here to model it in:

            Modeling Challenge

             

            Although if you just need to show it, here is a screen shot of a cylinder that I was working on.   This is just about 5 minutes worth of playing with the color/illumination/Surface finish.  It looks....football-ish (with regards to surface finish).   I am sure that with the right settings you could get it to look better.

              • Re: How to model texture on football?
                Anthony Huczek

                Thanks Dan. Yeah applying a texture map isn't the problem. They need to model it. Just like Titleist I guess

                 

                Initially I gave my model and renders (with texture) which was fine but now they are asking about plastic injection so they want to have the texture be part of the mold. I got a headache just thinking about doing that haha.

                  • Re: How to model texture on football?
                    Dennis Dohogne

                    Anthony Huczek wrote:

                     

                    Thanks Dan. Yeah applying a texture map isn't the problem. They need to model it. Just like Titleist I guess

                     

                    Initially I gave my model and renders (with texture) which was fine but now they are asking about plastic injection so they want to have the texture be part of the mold. I got a headache just thinking about doing that haha.

                    Texture for molds is not modeled into the part file.  Once you have the texture pattern identified and have used the corresponding draft it requires then the mold maker is told what the standard texture is and they apply it.  Depending on the specific texture this is usually done with a bead blast, laser, or in your case it will more likely be done with a chemical etch.

                     

                    3D printing a sample part with this texture is another matter and is rarely done for two reasons.  First, it requires some means to model the texture (as you are asking to do).  This is difficult to do all by itself, and it can create huge regeneration times due to all the tiny surfaces.  Secondly, 3D printing often does not have the resolution to do the net effect of the texture justice.

                     

                    In all the textured plastic parts I've designed we specified the texture to the mold maker.  For those parts that we 3D printed we did not apply the texture as we were usually more concerned with the overall look/feel and function of the part.  For the marketing pukes that were still interested in the texture we showed them the texture coupons so they could see and feel them and told them this would be applied to the part.  They were okay with that.

                      • Re: How to model texture on football?
                        Anthony Huczek

                        Thanks for the response Dennis. That's what I always assumed but I figured I'd reach out and ask the community. I told him initially that the sculptor or mold maker would add the texture and I got some push back. I think the factory he is working with is simply ill equipped for the job.

                         

                        This is very different than applying a pattern or design. This kind of repeating texture is just so hard to model. It makes for a fun design challenge though!

                        • Re: How to model texture on football?
                          Rob Edwards

                          Many years ago I used to be a mould engraver applying textures using acid.  It's a crazy dark art, that required many hours of hand retouching.  Recently there's a lot of new tech with lasers and vacuums etc, but when I was etching it was still pretty much medieval.

                          We would take a zinc plate covered in photographic film and expose it in a dark room to produce our negative.  This was etched and used in a printing press.  The holes in the plate were filled with a special wax and printed onto tissue paper.

                          These sheets could then be used to transfer the wax into the curved mould where it was carefully burnished and the paper removed with an alcohol/water mix. It was pretty basic.  We would carefully tear the paper so that we didn't get straight lines in our joints.  and use gentle creases, tears etc to fit the pattern in however we could.  What we missed and the imperfections between sheets was hand retouched.

                          For a part like this (It reminds me of truck footwells or pickup liners... even the plastic milk bottles we have in the UK) the mould was generally cast Aluminium and we had to etch it deep.

                           

                          Here's the footwell of our VW

                           

                          The retouching of the texture prior to etching is a lengthy process, sometimes taking days for a big job.  For this type of texture I would liberally apply a bitumen type paint and then scratch the holes in using a needle.  This allows you to adjust clusters at once, blending it in by eye.

                          When done we'd etch as deep as we dared, before grit blasting, cleaning and further rounds of 'penning up', acid washing and cleaning.

                          The 'penning up' process was basically just taking a wax crayon and reapplying the resist to the tops of the texture - a bit like the brass rubbing I did as a kid.

                          The very best work, especially old work I saw was entirely engraved by hand, we could never exactly emulate that through etching.

                           

                          So Paul (as usual) I think you've nailed it!

                           

                        • Re: How to model texture on football?
                          Matt Lombard

                          Use Mold Tech textures Mold-Tech Home

                          You select from a book of samples, and the mold shop can apply the process to create that texture. Check out the website.

                           

                          The site has an example that looks like a football texture right on it:

                      • Re: How to model texture on football?
                        Glenn Schroeder

                        Would your client be satisfied with the appearance of the texture?  If yes, it should be fairly easy to take a screenshot or other picture of the texture and apply it as an Appearance.  As long as you're showing the shaded model it should look fine.

                        • Re: How to model texture on football?
                          Steve Calvert

                          I thought this was a football

                           

                           

                          Steve C

                          • Re: How to model texture on football?
                            Paul Salvador

                            Hello Anthony,.. you can apply a bunch of random 3DSketch Points on your surface (can be offset to change depth) and do a Sketch Pattern of a Sphere/Ball.. and Combine? (image attached)

                            sktcptn.png

                            • Re: How to model texture on football?
                              Christian Chu

                              Have you tried to take picture of a real football and saved image as SW appearance

                              • Re: How to model texture on football?
                                David Nelson

                                Could you just model a small part of it to show what the pattern is.  I do this from time to time when a large pattern would freeze up my machine.

                                • Re: How to model texture on football?
                                  Steve Crompton

                                  Another possible way is to model your ball in solidworks and then export it to a nurbs modeler. In Cinema 4d you can apply a displacement map texture that you can then turn into actual geometry. Might be worth looking into if your bosses are insisting they need the textured file to print.

                                   

                                  Tutorial 31: Converting a displacement into a mesh (Redux) on Vimeo

                                   

                                  Good luck

                                  Steve